Difference between revisions of "Bounty Hunter 9 (Source)"

Latest revision as of 12:48, 19 September 2007

I wrote this message in response to a post in the Pistoleer forum, but I'm re-posting it here because I think this is a more appropriate place for it. There was some dispute as to whether Torso Shot stacks upon itself 3 times when fired from the same weapon, and I'd like to get some bounty hunter feedback on this issue...

Okay, I've heard some radically different opinions now on how (or if) Torso Shot stacks upon itself, so I decided to go out today and test it for myself to settle the issue once and for all. I went to Dathomir and shot Surefoot Brackasets with my Modified Republic Blaster. The blaster's health bleed DoT's are all used up (it's an old blaster), so the only DoT would be coming from the specials in this experiment. I ran 4 different experiments, where in each one I went prone at ideal range (to make sure my accuracy was maxed out and I wouldn't miss), fired either one or three Torso Shots, then immediately peaced, stood, and ran away. The brackasets eventually began to chase me most of the time, but I kept them far enough away that I wasn't firing at them anymore and I could observe the floating tick numbers above their heads. Here are the results of the 4 experiments (to avoid confusion and make comparisons easier, the original damage numbers are in blue, the fire DoT ticks are in red, and the percentages are in yellow).

1. 1) Damage from a single Torso Shot = 871. Fire DoT ticks: 529, 535, 540, 545 (average = 537). The average tick is 62% of the original damage.

1. 2) Damage from a single Torso Shot = 563. Fire DoT ticks: 342, 347 (I lost the target as I was running away) (average = 344.5). The average tick is 61% of the original damage.

The above results appear to be pretty consistent--Torso Shot ticks for about 61-62% of the original shot's damage (not 50% as has been posted elsewhere). Let's call it 61.5% for the purpose of the rest of the discussion.

1. 3) Damages from 3 Torso Shots fired consecutively: 949, 1232, 1097. Fire DoT ticks: 753, 764, 775, 786, 798, 809 (average = 781). The average tick is 71% of the average of the original shots (i.e., 71% of a typical single shot's damage). If the DoT's stacked additively the way a lot of people seem to think they do, and using the percentage I got for a single Torso Shot in the first 2 experiments, they would have ticked for (0.615 x 949) + (0.615 x 1232) + (0.615 x 1097) = 2016 per tick.

1. 4) Damages from 3 Torso Shots fired consecutively: 1016, 1018, 943. Fire DoT ticks: 630, 638, 646, 654, 662 (average = 646). The average tick is 65% of the average of the original shots (i.e., 65% of a typical shot's damage). If the DoT's stacked additively, they would have ticked for 1831 per tick.

Averaging the results of the last 2 experiments, the ticks are about 68% (average of 65 and 71) of a typical shot. Comparing that with 61% for a single unstacked Torso Shot, it appears that if there is any stacking resulting from shooting a Torso Shot 3 times from a single weapon, it is a very small increase (only 7% more fire damage).

If Torso Shots didn't stack at all when fired from the same weapon, then I think (feel free to disagree) that the tick would only be based on the last shot fired, overwriting the first two shots. That seems to be how DoT's work with other weapons and specials, if I'm not mistaken. If that were the case, the percentages for the ticks for experiments #3 and #4 would be 71% and 69% of the last shot fired, respectively (let's call it 70%). This is higher than the 61.5% observed for a single Torso Shot, so it doesn't appear to be based solely on the last shot fired. It does appear that there may be some very minimal stacking happening here, when firing all the shots from the same weapon. It's just not additive, and I have no idea if 3 shots is the magic number here either.

I haven't done this experiment yet using 3 different pistols (one Torso Shot for each pistol), so I can't say how it would work in that case. Personally, I find the weapon equipping delay to be so annoyingly long that even if it does stack in that case, I would rather just use the time to fire extra specials. It also seems clear to me that instead of firing 3 Torso Shots in a row, you'd get a better DoT by firing 3 different DoT specials (like Torso Shot, then Health Shot 2, then Health Shot 1). Once you've applied all possible different specials, then start spamming Torso Shot (or whatever is your favorite special--I personally think there may be better specials to spam than Torso Shot).

rYsyn wrote:

Consider this. If you take the Average Tick of #3 and #4 and take that over the MAX Torso Shot Stat you get a % of 65%.

Maybe the "tick" is based on the highers Torso Shot landed.

Yeah, I just rechecked some of my numbers and agree that it's very possible that it is based on the highest-damage Torso Shot landed, as you and JD100 suggested. Assuming that BloodMonk was correct about the battle fatigue, I really think the first tick number is the important one to look at for purposes of calculations. Unfortunately, since I missed some of the ticks as I was running, I'm not sure that the first tick I recorded above was actually the first tick. I really need a stationary target to experiment on.

I just did an interesting calculation though... Assuming in my experiment #4 that I missed the first tick, the first one would have ticked for 622 (they're all 8 ticks apart). That's 61% of the highest-damage Torso Shot (1018). Now looking at experiment #3, assuming that I did catch the first tick (I actually was paying better attention that time because it took longer before the brackaset started chasing me), that one is also 61% of the highest-damage Torso Shot. Now recalculating my first two experiments (the non-stacked single Torso Shots) using only the first tick (instead of the average), they both came out to 61% for the first tick. That's quite a coincidence, so perhaps it is indeed based on the highest-damage Torso Shot, and it doesn't really matter exactly how many you fire as long as you get one good one.

I'm not sure where this idea came from (that I've seen posted a few times now in both this forum and the Pistoleer forum) that you can stack exactly three Torso Shots, but if somebody actually has some data to support that, I'd very much like to hear it.

I just went back to Dath and ran 6 more experiments, and I think I have it figured out with 95% certainty now. It is pretty clear to me now that I missed recording some of the ticks that I reported earlier in the multi-shot experiments--it's simply too hard to see the first tick number when so much other information is superimposed flashing above the target's head (including the damage numbers for the actual Torso Shots, and the words "leg hit," etc). If I extrapolate backwards one more tick from the numbers that I reported (assuming that the first number I was able to see was actually the second tick), everything suddenly falls perfectly into place, and it's apparent that the first tick actually happens shortly after the first torso shot is fired. I won't bore people with all the data numbers I collected (but would be happy to give them to anybody who's interested), but once I made that correction, it became obvious that the first fire DoT tick is exactly 60.0% of the highest Torso Shot fired. I tried this with 1 (unstacked) Torso Shot, with 3 Torso Shots, and with 5 or 6 Torso shots (I ran 4 of the experiments today with 6 spammed Torso Shots, just to make sure that at least a few of the DoT's stuck). The tick was exactly 60.0% of the highest Torso Shot's damage, no matter how many I fired. In other words, Torso Shot 's fire DoT percentage does not stack.

As for the increase of the ticks from one tick to the following, I have no idea what determines that, but it seems to be a constant increase (i.e., always 11 points, always 5 points, etc, depending on the original damage). It doesn't appear to be a fixed percentage of the original damage (or the original tick), and I suspect it is a function of how much is remaining in the health pool or how much total burn damage has occurred, although it could conceivably also have to do with the battle fatigue, as was suggested earlier.

As for the time interval between ticks, although it was hard to measure this accurately at the same time that I was trying to run away from the brackasets and keep my camera on the floating numbers (this was a real challenge!), it appears that the tick interval is pretty close to 10 seconds, no matter how many Torso Shots are fired. In other words, the time intervals (tick frequencies) do not stack, i.e, do not become shorter as you fire more Torso Shots.

And here's something that seals the whole discussion... In the corresponding thread that I have been participating in the Pistoleer forum, someone named DigiDante wrote to a CSR asking about this issue, and just posted the following response back today (many thanks to DigiDante):

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Sony Online Entertainment Customer Support.

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the fire dot. This dot does not stack, now if you have seen differently then please report the issue with the /bug command. That way the testing department can look into the issue. I wish you the best. Thank you for your time, safe travels!

Jorge Sabala SWG In-Game CSR Sony Online Entertainment

So here's the bottome line: TORSO SHOT DOES NOT STACK... not with 3 shots, not with 6 shots, not with any shots. I have no clue where the idea ever came from that it did stack (and that it stacked exactly 3 times), but it's simply not the case.

Thanks for all the compliments from everybody--you guys are great, and have been so helpful getting me to focus my thoughts on how Torso Shot works. If anybody has any contradicting data, observations, or ideas to present, I would be very happy to hear them.

on the BF: if I remember correctly your tick is 2X as big at 500BF, 4X as big at 1000 BF...I'm pretty sure you can find it on the commando forum somewhere, as torsoshot and the flamethrower stuff workse the same.

This is the reason why the FT and Torsoshot can be used against medic/docs....they give massive BF (hindering healing), and tick harder too the longer you use em.